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08-14-2024, 08:48 PM
#1201
PineappleXpres
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 1,099
Originally Posted by PNWFlyer
no bearing on DOJ, but Alaska could have asked the DOJ to ask for an extension for this reason. A decision before could have altered the vote. Alaska would rather the FAs continue to work under the old contract, while they negotiate the JCBA. This is more beneficial to the company instead of negotiating from the basis of a new better contact.
That seems like wild speculation as I dont know how the DOJs time and resources while sitting on the island care to tanker with internal labor relations of one of the party.
If the DOJ even shifts weight in the chair its sitting in, it seems to have stakeholders shrieking in speculation.
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08-15-2024, 03:42 AM
#1202
Neosporin
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: outside
Posts: 713
Originally Posted by EskimoBraddah69
heard one of the conditions might be that we get rid of the dog biscuits from HNL cookie company in order to get approved. The DOJ feels that consumers should be served cookies that are soft and warm.
Throwback to Midwest Express!
08-15-2024, 07:13 AM
#1203
rickair7777
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,941
Originally Posted by PNWFlyer
no bearing on DOJ, but Alaska could have asked the DOJ to ask for an extension for this reason. A decision before could have altered the vote. Alaska would rather the FAs continue to work under the old contract, while they negotiate the JCBA. This is more beneficial to the company instead of negotiating from the basis of a new better contact.
I very seriously doubt that the activist lawyer running DOJ anti-trust is going to do a company an administrative favor to help them screw over a union labor group. Don't know about the company motives, but DOJ was not intentionally playing along with that.
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08-15-2024, 08:03 AM
#1204
AKCattleCarrier
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2023
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 52
My guess is the DOJ knows they have a management team experiencing massive organizational capture. AS now has resources, narratives, and most importantly egos (Bens is massive) completely wrapped up in getting this thing across the finish line. The volume of concessions may very well be significant and detrimental to our profitability. Gov employees that are extremely ideologically driven tend to think any level of collateral damage done in service of the ideology is morally justified. This management team has leaned way to far forward with this merger before regulatory approval and now feels like a rabbit hole egos simply can't back out of.
Their is this narrative that circulates this pilot group that this management team is somehow special and executes in a genuinely genius fashion. Its like a warm blanket that makes us all feel good about staying here and passing on that Delta interview. I don't buy it (anymore). AS has a disciplined management culture that runs a decent operation...but their success is largely circ*mstantial, stumbling onto a cornered funnel market that has proven to be a tremendous area of economic growth and is relatively recession resistant (PNW Tech, etc.).
Entertaining (depressing) experience: Flew with a CA that was in the low 1000's and 58 yrs old. Just couldn't wait to fly the 787. I asked "oh so you would be willing to downgrade to FO to fly the 787?" "Oh no I wouldn't be willing to downgrade to FO"......I didn't have the heart to burst his bubble. The heavy metal delusion has reached full psychological penetration of this pilot group.
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08-15-2024, 08:11 AM
#1205
rickair7777
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,941
Originally Posted by AKCattleCarrier
My guess is the DOJ knows they have a management team experiencing massive organizational capture. AS now has resources, narratives, and most importantly egos (Bens is massive) completely wrapped up in getting this thing across the finish line. The volume of concessions may very well be significant and detrimental to our profitability. Gov employees that are extremely ideologically driven tend to think any level of collateral damage done in service of the ideology is morally justified. This management team has leaned way to far forward with this merger before regulatory approval and now feels like a rabbit hole egos simply can't back out of.
Their is this narrative that circulates this pilot group that this management team is somehow special and executes in a genuinely genius fashion. Its like a warm blanket that makes us all feel good about staying here and passing on that Delta interview. I don't buy it (anymore). AS has a disciplined management culture that runs a decent operation...but their success is largely circ*mstantial, stumbling onto a cornered funnel market that has proven to be a tremendous area of economic growth and is relatively recession resistant (PNW Tech, etc.).
Entertaining (depressing) experience: Flew with a CA that was in the low 1000's and 58 yrs old. Just couldn't wait to fly the 787. I asked "oh so you would be willing to downgrade to FO to fly the 787?" "Oh no I wouldn't be willing to downgrade to FO"......I didn't have the heart to burst his bubble. The heavy metal delusion has reached full psychological penetration of this pilot group.
My gut feel was also along these lines, but actually giving BM and ST just a little more credit for how well they have planned this.
Also while a merger is the fastest path to turnkey international/WB ops, it's not the only path. I do believe that they will not cave to DOJ to the point of making the whole proposition a hail mary. Both are young, vested in AS culture, and probably want to be here for a while and enjoy some success... not go out fighting for their jobs in BK court.
But yeah, .gov doesn't care in the slightest, they're just extremist activists who want to put point ups on the board in the socialist struggle against big business.
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08-15-2024, 10:20 AM
#1206
PineappleXpres
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 1,099
Originally Posted by rickair7777
My gut feel was also along these lines, but actually giving BM and ST just a little more credit for how well they have planned this.
Also while a merger is the fastest path to turnkey international/WB ops, it's not the only path. I do believe that they will not cave to DOJ to the point of making the whole proposition a hail mary. Both are young, vested in AS culture, and probably want to be here for a while and enjoy some success... not go out fighting for their jobs in BK court.
But yeah, .gov doesn't care in the slightest, they're just extremist activists who want to put point ups on the board in the socialist struggle against big business.
We are more than planes and gate space. Our consumers love us. And that consumer demographic is broad with a wide appeal. Dont get caught up in the 1.9 billion when our valuations is technically blah. We just cant sustain the operation for them.
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08-15-2024, 10:57 AM
#1207
GoodJet
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 645
Originally Posted by AKCattleCarrier
My guess is the DOJ knows they have a management team experiencing massive organizational capture. AS now has resources, narratives, and most importantly egos (Bens is massive) completely wrapped up in getting this thing across the finish line. The volume of concessions may very well be significant and detrimental to our profitability. Gov employees that are extremely ideologically driven tend to think any level of collateral damage done in service of the ideology is morally justified. This management team has leaned way to far forward with this merger before regulatory approval and now feels like a rabbit hole egos simply can't back out of.
Their is this narrative that circulates this pilot group that this management team is somehow special and executes in a genuinely genius fashion. Its like a warm blanket that makes us all feel good about staying here and passing on that Delta interview. I don't buy it (anymore). AS has a disciplined management culture that runs a decent operation...but their success is largely circ*mstantial, stumbling onto a cornered funnel market that has proven to be a tremendous area of economic growth and is relatively recession resistant (PNW Tech, etc.).
Entertaining (depressing) experience: Flew with a CA that was in the low 1000's and 58 yrs old. Just couldn't wait to fly the 787. I asked "oh so you would be willing to downgrade to FO to fly the 787?" "Oh no I wouldn't be willing to downgrade to FO"......I didn't have the heart to burst his bubble. The heavy metal delusion has reached full psychological penetration of this pilot group.
Shhhhhh
Please encourge all your Captains to fly the brand new super cool shiny 787s.
Feel free to throw in stories about how amazing international flying is.
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08-15-2024, 11:32 AM
#1208
AKCattleCarrier
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2023
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by PineappleXpres
We are more than planes and gate space. Our consumers love us. And that consumer demographic is broad with a wide appeal. Dont get caught up in the 1.9 billion when our valuations is technically blah. We just cant sustain the operation for them.
I hope this is a joke. Yeah.....don't get caught up in metrics, data, finances. Airlines are only giant complex logistics operations. If your consumers were loyal, broad, or appealing enough your route structure would make money. Instead it lost $71m in the 2nd quarter as opposed to Alaska Airlines which made $220m in the 2nd quarter. Not sure if anyone told you but thats one of the quarters your supposed to make money. Hawaiian airlines is literally nothing but 787 orders and gate space/landing slots to this management team. Coming to grips with that now will make processing the next 7 years much easier.
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08-15-2024, 12:09 PM
#1209
GoodJet
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 645
Originally Posted by AKCattleCarrier
I hope this is a joke. Yeah.....don't get caught up in metrics, data, finances. Airlines are only giant complex logistics operations. If your consumers were loyal, broad, or appealing enough your route structure would make money. Instead it lost $71m in the 2nd quarter as opposed to Alaska Airlines which made $220m in the 2nd quarter. Not sure if anyone told you but thats one of the quarters your supposed to make money. Hawaiian airlines is literally nothing but 787 orders and gate space/landing slots to this management team. Coming to grips with that now will make processing the next 7 years much easier.
People from Hawaii really do love that airline though. I'm not saying you're wrong but these guys/gals are about to be our coworkers. They are probably going to have a really bad time adjusting to the AS typical QOL. If anything we should be quiet or supportive.
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08-15-2024, 01:03 PM
#1210
Neosporin
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: outside
Posts: 713
Originally Posted by GoodJet
People from Hawaii really do love that airline though. I'm not saying you're wrong but these guys/gals are about to be our coworkers. They are probably going to have a really bad time adjusting to the AS typical QOL. If anything we should be quiet or supportive.
I agree with AKCattlecarrier, 787s and gates and routes, that's it. Who loves us....? Locals loved Aloha. Toursist love HA. HA has price gouged locals for years. SWA gave them a decent price to fly interisland to visit family. A manager in Hilo told me that two Pualani Platinums migrated to SWA because we were basically unreliable. The 717 is a tired horse and needs to be set out to pasture.
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